Author Topic: Oh Vista....WTF?  (Read 5500 times)

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Offline xfixium

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Oh Vista....WTF?
« on: April 30, 2008, 09:16:42 PM »
Well, after I upgraded the RAM on my laptop, I decided to re-install Windows Vista on my computer. This requires the use of the HP restore disks I have. Which has plenty of bloatware in it. However I circumvented this and loaded the drivers manually. It's so nice that HP doesn't have an option to not install the crap software that comes with the PC. ::) But anything to reduce costs for them eh? I also got a new external hard drive, as my old one died several months ago. (I almost cried) Live and learn though. The most important stuff was saved on a 1gb flash key I had so I just miss my resources. :'( I re-installed a bunch of stuff, thanks to Venyux on certain things. So! I must say this time around my Vista experience didn't suck as much. It still sucks, but not as much. I can run the things I want except the biggie. Game Maker 7. I am having a hell of a time getting my game to run fast again. It runs at a crawl. Which makes no sense because my emulators and the such run fine like in XP. It's not like my laptop is complete shit either.

Specs:
Intel Core 2 Duo T5600 1.83Ghz
nVidia GeForce Go 7400 128Mb dedicated
1.5Gb of RAM

Don't know what the problem is, I'll have to do some searching.

Offline xfixium

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2008, 06:18:44 PM »
Well, I think I'll dual boot my system. At least I have Vista on as a testing OS.

Offline Alchemy

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2008, 08:03:17 PM »
Sorry for the necro post, but...

Make sure you have Vista SP2 and SP1 (in that order... don't know why they did it that way, but they did).

SP2 is a manual download from Microsoft's website, while SP1 is a Windows update "important" download.

Also, visit NVidia's website and manually search for and download the latest Vista compatible, 64bit drivers for the card, because Nvidia is one of the only companies out there offering real support for 64bit processing and for Vista. For instance, Linksys gave 64bit and Vista the finger.

Lastly, right click on your Game Maker EXE and go into compatibility, run in compatibility mode for XP SP2, disable desktop composition, and select "Run as administrator".

You may still sometimes get an error message that pops up randomly when you open GM7, the error message should be something along the lines of  'Failed to set data for "" '. Thats a problem with Game Maker, if you get it.

What alot of people don't understand is that Vista is actually very nice. Savor that sentence because I hardly ever talk nice about Micros*ft. Its a hell of alot more secure than any previous versions of Windows, and, aside from linux Ubuntu, has one of the most powerful dual core usage of any OS of its time. Unfortunately, Vista is plagued with the same problem every other version of Windows has been; poor resource management.

There are two reasons why Vista has problems with programs and hardware.
1.) Poor, lacking or non existant third party support. This problem is in turn, halting or slowing the production and development of Vista updates, because Microsoft now has entire teams of people making free, Microsoft developed drivers for other people's hardware.
2.) Unlike previous versions of Windows, Vista loads the entire OS GUI directly onto the graphics card, so if your card driver's aren't up to date, then your DDraw and screen drawing features will lag in programs not specifically made for Vista.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 08:20:12 PM by Alchemy »

Offline xfixium

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2008, 07:38:06 PM »
Oh hey there Alchemy, yeah this is an old topic, but I don't mind necro posting, never had a problem with it really. Well, I don't know exactly what the problem is, I'm guessing the video drivers, and Nvidia does not have them, instead they say to download the latest driver's from the laptop's manufacturer. According to HP, I have the latest ones. This doesn't relieve my problem with GM7 though. Vista ran my emulators fine (Albeit slightly slower), in various APIs except OpenGL. Which I guess it doesn't support anymore?

Anywho, while I agree it's more secure than previous Window's versions, it just seems that they pass this burden onto the consumer. With it's many pop-ups about this or that. Honestly, I have had so many requests from people who don't know shit about computers asking me to re-install XP on their machine. These people still want to run old software that they've been running forever.

Testing of Link's Awakening was a major reason I made this laptop dual boot. The other major reason was that copying and pasting files is painfully slow. I've looked at solutions and installed service packs. While these things did help the overall speed, it still performs this common task relatively slow, which is pretty unacceptable. Forget about moving large files through my home network. It just hangs and drops. Maybe I'll have a different opinion when they start fixing these problems, but I can see why people dislike it. I haven't touched Vista since partitioning my hard drive.

Offline Alchemy

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 03:09:12 PM »
Yeah, the problems you're having with speed are probably coming from your video card's drivers not properly running on the OS itself.

Try manually rooting EVGA versions of the Nvidia drivers into your system (if they exist) and then reboot and see what happens.
See, the speed problems happen when copying and everything else because, since Vista loads the entire GUI onto the graphics card, if the drivers or card don't work properly, then there will be lag anytime your PC has to refresh the screen, which typically happens at the very least 32 times per second (20 is the bare minimum that you have to have to make the human eye believe you're watching a moving animation rather than a series of pictures, but 32 is the bottom line standard). So, 32 times per second, your computer pauses anything its doing to redraw the screen, and if there's a problem with the redraw, then it'll be slow as heck.

Also, the file transferring through your network is a known issue. XP and Vista handle TCP/IP packets entirely differently, and if anywhere in between the transfer there is even the slightest packet loss (which there almost always is, though it is hardly never noticeable except in this situation), both systems have to recalibrate with each other and with your network.

If your emulators are Windows programs, you'll need to run in XP SP2 compatibility, as administrator, in fullscreen, and disable desktop composition, if they're DOS based, you're pretty much f***ed. They'll either work, or they won't. Vista's Command Console is so bare minimum its not even funny, but thats because the OS itself offers all the same functionality.

Also, alot of x86 programs won't run correctly, or at all in Vista, but if you can get the source code from it either by file, or CVS or another means, you can recompile it in Borland or Visual Studio to run on Vista, and while it may or may not be buggy, it will most likely work.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 05:03:54 PM by Alchemy »

Offline xfixium

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 05:23:27 PM »
Well, the lazy way is to use XP and not worry about it. lol Game emulator wise, like say VBA, it works fine, as long as Direct3D is being used as the graphics manager.

Offline Alchemy

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 05:35:28 PM »
haha

You people deny innovation! Vista uses an entirely different way of processing that is completely new, and people don't want to use that new way, because, yes, older ways of processing won't work in it. :-P

Instead of using XP, make those effers who develop the programs develop for the new trend in processing woohoo!


.... But then again, I hate Micros*ft. sad panda...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 05:45:59 PM by Alchemy »

Offline xfixium

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 07:18:06 PM »
Well, I see your point, they should've went hard core and only brought out a 64bit OS. Instead they pussed out. lol The problem with consumers is they don't really care what's under the hood, as long as shit works. Unfortunately, software is not all about innovation, it's also about money. Like a fellow I work with. He does sound recording, uses software he's familiar with and paid hundreds of dollars for. He gets a new box, guess what? His 5 or so audio applications have problems with it. Next thing you know he's asking me to install XP on his machine.

It will be a very difficult road for Microsoft to pave.

Offline Alchemy

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 07:39:15 PM »
Well, yes and no. Its not just 64bit thats the problem, Vista itself is  a whole new system built from the ground up, whereas every previous version of Windows was just an upgrade to previous version of Windows. Believe it or not, the backend of Windows XP and prior hasn't changed much since Windows 3.1.  Vista actually works entirely differently, whether 64bit or 32bit.

Its really hard for me to say this, but I'll drag it out.... Vista code and API is......c...l...e...a...n...e...r... than previous versions of Windows.

God, that was hard....

Also, what alot of people don't realize is that just because you have a dual core, tri core or even quad core, that doesn't mean your computer is going to be faster. your applications have to be written to use 64bit processing. This is causing a huge problem with Vista users because 32bit OS's can actually cause problems on 64 bit systems, and companies like Dell, Gateway, HP and even acer are notorious for putting 32bit OS's on 64bit systems, which is causing even more problems with people using Vista, and they think its Vista's fault.

I work in internal applications development and technical support, and even many of my coworkers (on the support side) who are offering technical support to customers have the audacity to say things like, "Oh, well he's using Vista, thats his first problem." without doing their research, and thats simply not true, and they're misleading people, but you can't correct them because everyone in ou tech department gets offended and threatened if, by god, anyone knows more than they do, rather than accepting a learning opportunity. You probably don't believe me, but I cannot convey to you how much I despise Micros*ft, but.... They actually did a nice job on Vista. I mean, its completely new. How many completely new systems have you seen in the last 10 years? NONE. Even Ubuntu is just a nice GUI slapped over Linux, and Solaris has been around forever.

Microsoft has made the first post x86 OS EVER, and its even cross core compatible. Give them a little credit.... but only a little.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 07:42:33 PM by Alchemy »

Offline xfixium

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 08:06:58 PM »
lol Well, I think the world is not ready for Vista. Personally, I have no problems with it other than my afore mentioned problems. It's just less frustrating with me using XP at this time. Also, offering your educated views to the ignorant is a losing battle (Co-workers). Thanks for the information.

Offline Alchemy

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2008, 08:21:21 PM »
Thats like saying the world isn't ready for innovation... which its not.

I mean, look at South Korea, they've had internet speeds above 100Mbps for how long now? And we're only now getting into the 20-50Mbps range? Its because Americans fight innovation to the point of death. The populace as a whole has refused to fund the development of new technologies and the laying, development, and manufacturing of the equipment needed to improve, so companies have had to find "hacks" and work arounds to be able to fund this progress themselves. You know how South Korea did it? They raised taxes for like 2 years, and then lowered them once they had enough money to lay advanced cabling throughout every major metropolitan area in their country. The PEOPLE payed for it.

But then again, thats somewhat communistic. Though a little bit of well placed communism would do our self corrupting, idiocracy of a country some good, but thats another topic for another time.

I hate to bring it back this far in time, but... SEGA. The first and only true American console company. Do you know Sega created the first LCD Monitor? Not only did they create them, but they packaged them inside airplanes for jet passengers to use while in a plane. And you know what? People said "Who needs an LCD, when I have a tube [CRT]?". After that, LCD's pretty much dissapeared from the market for YEARS, and when they came back out, everyone went CRAZY over them. SEGA Dreamcast was the first console system to support full MMO play, and think back to the days of the Genesis 2, 32x, Sega CD, and even the SEGA Nomad, giving players the ability to play their games at home AND on the go.

Americans as a whole war against progress and innovation on a daily basis, because its... inconvenient. wooooo.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 09:01:01 PM by Alchemy »

Offline The Endless One

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2008, 07:00:06 PM »
I Agree with Sir Alchemy,

Yes, XP is better for many reasons, but overall Vista work like a charm, I'm nothing wrong with it besides the fact of not being able to install some programs, other appilcation for safety reasons only

And you have to admit USA really over charges for something that should be no higher then your phone bill, Dail up died a good fifthteen years ago, and should have been replaced completely by 2000-2, the ovee 100mb speed is nothing much to really care for if you have firewire, which is close to 500mb.
The Darkness
Dreams sustain us through the madness;
goals give a finish line to our race.
Yet they change with every turn, around every wall,
and remain elusive throughout the quest.
Cherish the short intervals during the quest you have with others,but be prepared to walk alone in the darknes

Offline Alchemy

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2008, 11:17:45 PM »
I'm sorry for the rant. Its just that sometimes I get so fed up with the mass ignorance of our country. People don't know and refuse to learn. Its "cooler" to think what the majority thinks, whether its right, educated, or horse****. I'm so fed up with the mass ignorant reprisals against education and knowledge. People are beginning to make me utterly sick. The worst two are the ones who come to you asking for help just to tell you that you're wrong about something retarded, and the people that talk about and contribute to our political system and economy without having the balls to learn anything about it and base all their decisions on what their friends think based on misunderstanding everything thats said because they have the vocabulary of a 5th grader.

hmmm.... wow, who knew that was in there?

Offline The Endless One

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2008, 03:59:33 PM »
Hey do RPG maker 2003 work on Vista ?
The Darkness
Dreams sustain us through the madness;
goals give a finish line to our race.
Yet they change with every turn, around every wall,
and remain elusive throughout the quest.
Cherish the short intervals during the quest you have with others,but be prepared to walk alone in the darknes

Offline xfixium

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Re: Oh Vista....WTF?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2008, 05:27:08 PM »
I haven't been on my Vista partition in awhile, but I think it worked....